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Saturday, June 24, 2006

Dealing With Difficult People

While I was growing up, I lived with a relative who became extremely difficult to deal with over time. Living with them through the years became a daily battle of wills, either in direct confrontations or in desperate attempts to ignore them. It used to seem that the main issue was that this person was extremely self-centered, and I, and the other members of the household, were in comparison, not. Later, I would come to realize that the issue was a lot more serious than that. I came to realize the person was not wholly rational. This made dealing with them that much more exasperating because how does one deal with irrationality when one cannot escape it? The only way to deal with it is to ignore it, which only works for a time, or to escape or avoid it entirely if one can.

To say it was a difficult time (made much more so because it stretched over years) would be an understatement. I grew to hate this person and let's just say we never really reconciled.

The experience left some scars in many ways, but I guess, just like a lot of things, it had its upside as well. The upside was that it gave me...

Huh, now what was the upside again? I was thinking that it gave me some ability and skill with dealing with difficult people, but that's not quite right. I have no special powers when it comes to people who are annoying or taxing or, let’s just say it, jerks or loons. What I do have is a pretty low tolerance for them, actually.

I suppose one thing I did gain was a certain amount of patience in dealing with them, but not a kind or insightful or forgiving patience. Rather, it was more like a staid, calculating patience that would allow me to either ignore them and move on, or bide my time before taking them on at the best opportunity. The “ignore and move on” part comes from knowing that in many instances, dealing with such people is a waste of time and energy. The calculating patience comes in when you are forced to deal with them and then need to form a strategy.

Why I am even thinking along these lines now is due to rediscovering what an asylum an internet message board can be. Split between the obviously unbalanced and those just looking to cause trouble, it makes one wonder how long such open boards will remain. It is sort of like having a public park nowadays. While some people are responsible and respectful, there are those who trash the places either out of malice or indifference.

Like every technology, there are pluses and minuses, and many times they are flip sides of the same coin. The connectivity of the internet is a great example. What a marvelous thing that allows people from all around the world from all walks of life and many nations to connect and interact so easily. Really a splendid marvel.

Then again, it does put cretins in easy contact with you as well, does it not?

I mean, the internet and all the attendant technologies really help you broaden the breadth of humanity with whom you can come in contact with, no doubt. And you will find that there are great many good people out there, no matter where they hail from.

Unfortunately, in addition to discovering the universality of decency and intelligence and community, you will also become acquainted with the selfish, fanatical and enthusiastically dim.

After a hiatus, I attempted to engage in some discussion on a blog whose author I have a great respect for, both as a person and for her writing. Unfortunately, one of the first posts I read when coming back to her was one regarding Trolls. This was a warning sign.

Not being an internet neophyte, I know what Trolls are, and have come head-to-head with them myself. I have even dueled with them, and although have come out on top, it has been an exhausting and ultimately futile exercise. Part of the reason I had stayed away from message threads was because of their corrosive presence on the content of the blog itself. I have over time, however, apparently forgotten what a blight they are.

It's like this. If you are a normal, rational and decent person, you are not going to want to listen to a Neo-Nazi, Black Israelite, Marxist, 9/11 conspiracist or Larouche supporter harangue and spew on the street corner. You would not want to waste your time listening what you know is obvious drivel and hate-filled invective to boot. If one of them offers you their "literature", you are not going to take it, let alone read it, either.

Being on an open comment thread, however, no matter how rational and non-extremist it may be, is like subscribing to their newsletters. Engaging with them on the thread is like taking their call. Even just entering the thread to look around is like choosing to walk down the street where you know the crazies have their rickety soapboxes set up.

Do not get me wrong. There are plenty of smart, fair people out there who even when disagreeing strenuously, can keep things at a civil level. Even anger and biting comments can surface, and rational people can keep it at least polite.

What I am talking about are the nuts and the fanatics and the ones who are just, let's face it, dicks for pleasure. The dicks are the worse, because while the nuts are unnerving and the fanatics are exhausting, the dicks are infuriating. You can tell one because their comments are directly phrased and pointed in order to elicit an angry response, not to prove any point or even take a particular position. Its all flash, no fire.

None of these jokers would have any power if others would just ignore them, but that becomes like herding cats; sometimes like herding angry, rabid cats. There will always be those who think they can win the argument, or does not know what they are getting into, or who is simply another Troll in a different form. In the end, the Trolls will feed off each other if no one else bites and they will still manage to splatter everyone else with the gore while they try to engage in decent conversation.

I guess why I am ruminating on all this is trying to come up with strategies or general guidelines for dealing with what is not worth dealing with, and how to best sort out the two as quickly as possible. Not just in terms of message boards (there is always the delete button), but in more general terms. More on this later, perhaps.

10 comments:

Anonymous said...

Well, you could try to engage them in a debate without calling them "trolls" for starters. Where is the cart and where is the horse after all?

Or you could recognise that you may well be mistaken when you assume that they are not arguing a position and assume that they just trying to elicit anger.

If you are referring to neoneocon, it is neither rational or "non-extremist (in English that would be moderate). That blog is about as extreme right as you get. Anyone that deviates from the extreme rightist party line is branded a troll as you have done.

Why do new ideas and new ways of looking at things frighten you?

Weary G said...

Well, you could try to engage them in a debate without calling them "trolls" for starters.

I do engage people in debate, and I do not call people Trolls on a whim. I do label them so when they exhibit consistent Troll-like behavior, either to me or someone else on a thread.

Where is the cart and where is the horse after all?

The cart is where the big-wheeled thing is, and the horse is where the 4 legged thing is. A Troll would, just to be difficult, would try to claim the cart was the big animal with the mane, and vise-versa, even when shown they were wrong.

Or you could recognise that you may well be mistaken when you assume that they are not arguing a position and assume that they just trying to elicit anger.

I base my Troll analysis on their behaviour, so I could, and do, recognize a legitimate argument apart from a simple attempt to provoke a reaction without any real attempt to engage.

If you are referring to neoneocon, it is neither rational or "non-extremist (in English that would be moderate). That blog is about as extreme right as you get.

The content of Neo's considerable writing stands in direct and stark contrast to your assertion. That statement of yours in itself speak of a reactionary mindset.

Anyone that deviates from the extreme rightist party line is branded a troll as you have done.

No, those who have engaged in Troll-like behavior have been branded as a Troll by me. Have some on those boards used the Troll name too freely? Perhaps, but I don't take responsibility for them. I do know that there is a large number of Trolls there who are particularly dedicated lot.

Why do new ideas and new ways of looking at things frighten you?

I like new ideas and new ways of looking at things, but if those new ideas and things prove to be false, without substance or in fact dangerous, I tend to dislike them.

And, I'm sorry, but when did I mention I was frightened? I appreciate your comments, but I am going to have to insist that your read my posts if you are going to comment on them. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

So, in your view, neo-neocon isn't on the extreme right?

Perhaps you need to look around a bit more. I read it fromtime to time to get the perspective of what the ultra-nationalist blogosphere is boiling up in the way of slander and hyperbole.

I do that NOT because it is thoughtful or well written, but because it is an amalgum of what others are saying. Even her writings on her own experiences and formations are lifted from others.

Weary G said...

So, in your view, neo-neocon isn't on the extreme right?

No, she is not. To think she is on the extreme right seems to me, well, extreme.

Perhaps you need to look around a bit more.

If you think Neo is the extreme right, I think you should take your own advice.

I read it fromtime to time to get the perspective of what the ultra-nationalist

Perhaps we need to define our terms. Please define (in 1-2 sentences max each, please):

Extreme right
Ultra-nationalist

And for comparison:

Extreme left

blogosphere is boiling up in the way of slander and hyperbole.

If you have examples of slander and hyperbole written by Neo, you might want to trot them out now, otherwise I think you might be engaging in some hyperbole yourself. Links please.

I do that NOT because it is thoughtful or well written, but because it is an amalgum of what others are saying.

Not sure what you are saying here. You tell me I need to look around more, yet you are telling me you read Neo so you don't need to read a bunch of others?

Even her writings on her own experiences and formations are lifted from others.

I’m sorry, does this mean that in addition to slander, you are accusing her of plagerism?

Anonymous said...

>No, she is not. To think she is on the extreme right seems to me, well, extreme.<

The ideas and the groupthink is very much that of the extremist prowar, antimuslim, antirational, pro-amoralism crowd. Neoconservatism is extreme ultranationalism by definition. The objectives are not removed from triumphal imperialism as practised in the early 20th century, just with a new axis. The method is the new neofascism. It all stems from the PNAC doesn't it?

>If you have examples of slander and hyperbole written by Neo, you might want to trot them out now, otherwise I think you might be engaging in some hyperbole yourself. Links please. <

Oh, just the usual stuff going around in the extremist blogs. Killing judges, reporters, Democrats, "liberals", foreign leaders etc. Not to mention the quite blatant lies spread about islam, misquoting the qu'ran etc The antiPalestine/arab stuff is pretty sick from a human point of view.

>I do that NOT because it is thoughtful or well written, but because it is an amalgum of what others are saying<

You're partially right. I don't have that much time available to read all the blogs. The 'essays' are a good way to keep up with what's hot in the ultranationalist on-line world. The comments section is enlightening in a sad way. There are some certifiable proponents of violence with little hold on reality in there, and anyone with a different viewpoint tends too be shouted down or banned for "trolling".

Its the echochamber mentality. The thought involved is about making the facts fit the viewpoint, and not allowing inconvenient facts into the collective conscious.

>I’m sorry, does this mean that in addition to slander, you are accusing her of plagerism?<

Yes, absolutely. Very little of it is original. Most of the essays are lifted from a number of other earlier blogs. They aren't all that well disguised either.

I'll try to find some links.

Weary G said...

Anonymous,

I'll await those links for everything you've asserted before commenting further. You seemed so certain regarding your assertions about Neo, I would think finding those links, at least some of them, would be pretty easy.

Actually, I'll also going to await the definitions of those terms I asked you for. Instead of giving me those definitions, you gave me a bunch more terms and phrases which to me seem not much more than left-wing buzzwords.

Weary G said...

Still waiting for those links...

Anonymous said...

Having read your "take" on the Gaza and Lebanon crimes against humanity, I think I'll pass on this blog, thanks.

You probably don't count yourself as an extremist, nor recognise your views as parroting the propaganda of "your side".

I can assure you that you are an extremist. I don't know who you are but I do hope that one day you'll wake up and see your triumphal calls to more war and more violence, for what they are. Blind dogma.

Maybe it will take the trauma of another WTC or the like to jolt you out of this crazy thinking. I don't know. But surely one will come. The current GWOT is demonstrably failing.

This madness is not making the world a safer place for anyone. I don't care why you hate muslims or anyone else, the results are what matters in the end.

I don't get the US love of Israel either. They are an anathema to everything it supposedly stands for (or used to). Since seeing Condi Rice acting as a messenger for the Likudists in sheeps clothing, I guess they've dropped the pretence.

Oh, what a lovely world.

Good bye. I can't bring myself to wish you good luck. Sorry.

Weary G said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Weary G said...

Bye. I am sure I will miss your incisive analysis.